what can I do when I feel anxious?

Transcript:

Corinne: Hello and welcome to Empowered to Thrive. As always, I'm so glad that you've joined me today and I am happy today to have a guest to introduce! Lisa Garber came on the show in the past and I so enjoyed conversation with her that I was hopeful she would come back on and here she is. So thank you, Lisa.

Lisa: Yeah, my pleasure.

Corinne: Lisa is a personal coach. She's a mentor and a former therapist with over 25 years of experience, helping women reconnect with their true selves and create lives they truly love. With a master's in counseling psychology, Lisa blends deep insights with practical strategies to guide her clients in overcoming self-doubt, discovering their core values, and taking bold steps towards personal fulfillment.

And last time we did speak about overcoming self-doubt. And I can 100 % back that up. You gave us such practical strategies and yet we were talking about deep concepts.

Lisa's work is rooted in the belief that true transformation begins with mastering the inner game, overcoming fears, limiting beliefs and resistance so that you can embrace a life of alignment and purpose. She's passionate about bridging the gap between self-reflection and taking meaningful action, empowering women to create lasting change. When she's not coaching, Lisa enjoys teaching, writing, and exploring spiritual principles that inspire both her life and work.

So much that I love about who you are and what you do, and I am excited today to talk about underlying fears and what they do that really isn't in favor of us moving forward, and what we can do about it. So again, thank you for being here!

Lisa: Well, it's my pleasure. And I'll tell you, thank you for reading that out loud. I should replay your reading of that a few times to get my faith and belief up because I sound impressive. I may write and read it, but it doesn't seem the same as when you say it out loud with such enthusiasm. So thank you.

Corinne: You're welcome. I can feel it. I know that's who you are. You know, when you sit in front of somebody and you see them and then you've actually had conversation with them, I could confidently read that and say, even though I haven't known her long and you haven't personally counseled me, that's what you are, what you just said there. So yeah. You deserve it.

Lisa: I'm taking it in. Yes. I love the part where it talked about underlying fears, right? Reason it's there is because the more I coach, the more I come up against blocks with my clients. I come up against blocks in myself. Yeah, and you've wonder what what are these blocks right? Why is this so difficult, or why is this person procrastinating? Why is this person doubting themselves, or why is this not moving forward? We had this great session and we came up with this great plan and we have the actions all set out and then two weeks later we meet, they didn't do anything. Or me, niche after niche, working on my online business, trying to get it to do something, you know? And I think, okay, what do I know for sure is that underneath blocks is fear, some kind of fear. And we often don't talk about it.

We only need to identify that it's fear, honestly. We don't have to be even more specific. However, it's interesting and enlightening and full of self-awareness when we can actually identify fears like some of the usual ones, like the fear of failure or the fear of success also exists. Have you heard of that one?

Corinne: Yeah, that's real.

Lisa: Yeah. And fears of, you know, what will people think of me or, well, tell me what are some of yours? Have you identified some of your underlying fears?

Corinne: Well, interestingly, like when you talk about the fear of success, I think about like the fear of being seen because if you succeed, you'll be in front of more faces. You'll be more well known and then you'll be more fully exposed. And that can be frightening. I know personally that being seen when I was young also meant I could be criticized.

Lisa: Yes.

Corinne: And then even if I think about it presently, right, the more people that hear me and know what I stand for, you open yourself up to.

Lisa: Yes, the people that love you and the ones that have bones to pick.

Corinne: I know personally based off of the earliest experiences I had that it doesn't necessarily feel inviting to be sometimes too well known, even though on the other hand, I say, that's what I want.

Lisa: But you're right, it's this internal block.

Corinne: Yeah.

Lisa: Yes, and very well expressed. That is the point, it isn't the fear of success. Like that's just so abstract, right? The idea whenever or even the fear of failure, it's still abstract. The idea is what do I think that means if I'm successful or if I fail, what is it that I am worried will happen because of that? And it is things like you just said, fear of being criticized, right? I'll be… you know… pointed out and things will be said about me that won't feel good. If I fail, I won't be able to put food on the table and we'll starve to death. Or, you know, if I make a fool of myself, nobody will like me anymore. So there's always something underneath the actual fear that when we name it. And that's important for people to understand because like you said, it goes back to something in your childhood. It always does.

It always goes back to some experience that we had and it was a difficult, we couldn't handle it or it didn't get handled well. And then, and for kids, everything is difficult to handle. So if there isn't help to handle it, it will be unfinished business essentially. So our fears generally go back to some kind of unfinished business and it's kind of programmed into us. So this is what I say about why the inner work is so important. Sometimes I call it the “inner game” because even though I love, love, love coaching, it can't just be about a strategy to get your goals because if you could do it, you would have done it. There's always something else that's going on underneath it. And that seems to me very key when you're working with people or when you're talking about oneself what is you know, exactly is going on here? And so I'll give you an example. And this was... Is this the right example? I guess it's okay to give… some things have been happening in the political world that have been very unnerving to me. I'm feeling moments of despair and fear and it's stopping me from sitting down and doing the work I need to do. So I had to think about what was happening and I immediately, when I sort of stopped and went within, I felt like I was about seven years old. I'm about seven and I've had this feeling when I'm seven. Then I had this memory float by, which was me sitting on my father's lap and him saying, what is wrong, darling? What's bothering you? And I finally opened up to him and said, “They're talking about this at school … about how the world is going to end.” This was something in the papers and the newspapers in this era. People were predicting the end of the world. This wasn't about a bomb going off or anything. It was just some sort of… I don't know... maybe it was a cultish thing. I can't remember who started it, but it was big and everybody was talking about it. And I was terrified and I didn't say anything to anybody.

And so that vision of me sitting on my father's lap as a seven year old worrying that the world was going to end was exactly how I was feeling here as a full grown adult who's perfectly capable of taking care of herself in the midst of seeing, you know, things that I wasn't used to seeing and some chaos and stuff and, that fear coming up. I thought, wow, that's old, but that's a really old fear. And it was stopping me.

Corinne: Yeah.

Lisa: That's my most recent example.

Corinne: Okay. So if you're comfortable answering, what did you do to support your child's self as you realized what was going on more deeply?

Lisa: Yeah, a couple of things. One of the things that I do a lot is I do breath work. I do a lot of breath work because I've come to learn something about fear. We might've talked about this the last time… did we talk about the brain science behind fear? Do you remember? Do you mind if we do?

Corinne: I don't remember that we did. And it's been long enough ago - over a year and a half - that we can all hear it again if we did. Everybody forgot. Right, we didn't hear it seven times, yet, right?

Lisa: Okay, perfect. Excellent. So now I'm not being the child in the moment. I'm being the educator. What I understand about the brain is that, and why these things can last for so long, is that we have these emotional, we call them emotional needs. We know we have physical needs, right? We need to have food and water and sleep and we need to feel safe. And emotional needs are similar in that as humans have kept keep evolving, we need to feel respected. We need to feel safe. We need to feel valued. We need to feel successful. think somebody said that we need to feel like we belong. There's some very core needs that humans, all humans need. And it's part of the… part of the emotional brain. When something happens that looks like it's a threat to those needs, to any one of them or to a few of them, we go into a state of triggered fight, flight, freeze response.

Even if we don't feel like it, if it's not that obvious to us, little things will happen, like we get shallow breathing. So I'm sitting there thinking about this little kid and this fear that I'm in, and I know for sure I'm shallow breathing because I'm in a stress response. So that's why I breathe. I breathe because when you do that, you're giving your brain a message that says I'm actually okay in this moment. Right, there are no tigers chasing me. The world is not ending at this moment. Everything is okay. Yeah, so a few really deep breaths is one of the first thing I did when I recognized.

The other thing I do is, you know I do emotional freedom technique tapping. I didn't do a full tapping, but I did take my hand and I did pat sort of the heart area of my chest, which is an acupuncture and acupressure tapping spot to try and calm and soothe the inner child. You know how you do that with your babies. Tap them on their chest, everything's okay, or you rub their bellies, everything is okay. There's something soothing about that. So while I was breathing, I was tapping and then I noticed that my stress response relaxed.

This is something that I've been talking to people lot about is that honestly. Whatever's going on with us, we really need to address the stress first. Because whatever is happening, we're in a stress state. When we're in a stress state, we cannot be at our best. So that's what I did. I just thought about the stress.

Then the other thing I did is I started I shifted my morning meditations to what they call a Vegas nerve meditation. I've been learning the last few years about the vagus nerve and the nervous system. And so I do this 20 minute meditation that's all about sort of breathing in and then slowly releasing and talking and a mantra about right now in this moment, I can feel some ease, which is just a beautiful thought when you're little stressed. I just focused, I didn't focus on sort of trying to change what she was thinking. I just tried to focus on feeling less stressed about what she was thinking and how I was feeling.

So that was the first thing I did. And then the second thing I did was just to remember… once the stress is a little bit less… is to remember I'm not that child anymore, right? That I'm the adult here… that I can manage… I will handle whatever comes up. I have for all these years! It's a reminder, right, that I'm the loving parent now, and that I'll be okay. Like my dad did with me, put his arms around me and said, oh, honey, it's okay. Everything is going to be okay. It's like, okay, all right. It's going to be okay.

And then I stopped watching the news. I really did. That's the parenting part, right? I said, you just don't watch the news right now because it's bringing back… you know… it's upsetting me. Yeah.

Corinne: Wow, there's so many ways there you just said about how you supported your body, how you took care of that little girl. But yeah, the very practical… okay, so some were techniques you had learned, you put into practice. Then you went this next step and said, what is coming into my eye gate, my ear gate right now? And I'm feeling very dysregulated because of even just the energy that's being emitted, right? And so I'm gonna turn this off.

Why I'm emphasizing that is because even if somebody's like, I don't know how to do those techniques, she just referenced, we all have the ability to notice what are we looking at right now. What are we listening to? What are we doing in this moment that's active? Is it supporting us? Is it depleting us? And what can we do to take good care of ourselves right now?

You know, I think nobody needs to walk away from what you just said without something we can all apply, because you're you're bringing up a point that's so relevant. The collective energy is very heavy right now and it's not just now like you mentioned. When you were 7 there was this talk about the world ending. Did the world end, Lisa?

Lisa: It did not. It didn't.

Corinne: So sometimes it's nice to just know, sometimes there's talk of things and it won't ever happen. I'm not here pushing away how anyone's feeling - not at all! Just we're all feeling something and this will not be the first or last time that we're confronted by a heaviness, a depression, a fear. That is why having tools and putting things into practice is imperative. Yeah. You know, I'm one of those go-getters like clearly you are! You know, if there's something I can do about it - I don't need to sit and live my life being depressed. I could say I have a bent towards that [depression] because of the DNA, and I can know that's also a part of the human experience. I also know I don't want to live out of that place for my life long. And you know, that is huge.

Lisa: I just want to say, yes, that is huge. That kind of decision is so powerful because me too, parents, both of them, on antidepressants, depressed, anxiety, all this stuff, you know that could justify that I experienced, but I remember lying in bed with it, with this fear …underlying fear, this recognition and this despair. I thought, I don't want to live like this. It was really clear decision. I don't want to live like this. Then it was, okay, let's get going! You said “a go getter.” Let's figure this out. What do we need to do? The first thing I did also… I mean … we talked about the breathing. I stopped scrolling my phone.

Now, I love YouTube. That's my favorite thing. I learned all my stuff about how to run an online business … and marketing … and all the things that people are goal setting. These people are somehow brilliant at all this. But then there's all the news, and then there's this, that and the other. I'm scrolling and I'm not even listening to it, just looking. I'm lying in bed trying to go to bed, half an hour scrolling my phone. Like, come on, I'm not a teenager. And I realized afterwards, wow, that's contributing. You think it's not, because you think, I'll just lie here. But, you know, they create those things to screw around with our brains. And it was screwing around with my brain. So I said, that's it. I'm listening to my yoga person. I do yoga in the morning on YouTube and I'm doing… I listened to a man named Joel Goldsmith, a Christian mystic who I adore and I will watch him on YouTube or listen to him on YouTube. That's it. Everything else … I don't even … I just go right to my subscriptions, and I don't even look. So yeah, there's things that we can do.

Corinne: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And you just said, it's not like we have to throw out this resource. YouTube can be good and useful for you in this season, but you know what is useful for you right now -that platform. And that's going to take boundaries. It's gonna take putting things in place that you actually follow through, right?

Lisa: Discipline. Yes.

Corinne: But it's also not to say we can never do something even though that space and that place, or that platform, might have all sorts of content coming at us. Yeah. So, yeah. I felt like when you were talking just about the determination and the decision you made about… not going to live depressed. I'm not going to. Yes, I understand reasons why I could. I understand why this is maybe harder for me than it might be for someone else. I think all of that is really good. I think it's important to not shame and to validate ourselves in our experiences, because they're real.

I know there's other people listening who just need to be reminded of the passion and the fire that is inside of each one of us. Because depression is literally just trying to throw water on the fire. Like there is a passion and a fire inside of all of us. And even if there's just embers for you listening, let this be the flame… the oxygen… the air… the wind that comes through that allows those embers to come into flame. I mean that! Allow this conversation that Lisa and I are having to be something powerful and defining for your life. This doesn't just have to be another podcast episode you're listening to on a random day of the week. This actually can be a moment in time that allows you to turn a corner. Because you're listening to two people who've made decisions, who have said, yes, I could keep on the same path. I could go towards this bent that I have, but I'm not going to. It's bigger than ourselves and yet it takes our own decision to start.

Lisa: Amen. Yeah. So yeah, it's it is deep, moving and powerful. I completely agree. I had to learn that when… because… of the crippling anxiety that I've had since I was a child. And I remember at some point, I don't know when it was, I was thinking to myself, okay, if I let this get to me, and if I let this be the master of my life, I won't do anything. I won't have a life. And I said, okay, I'm doing stuff even though I'm anxious. Because I still haven't gotten rid of the anxiety. I'm still filled with anxiety. I wake up with it in the morning. I've worked on it diligently. And I would say it's a… you know … much better, much better. However, it's not gone. And that's the point. The point wasn’t that it’s gone.

Would I have gone to Europe by myself when I was in my 30’s? Would I have gone back to school in my 30’s? And would I have started my own business? Would I have traveled the world; done a million things that I have done in my life; get on a bicycle? Everything was scary. Everything.

It's not that the things were scary. It's that I carry anxiety with me. Everything… I can find something to worry about in anything that I do. Get on a bike: I can worry about falling off. So it's not like those things are anxious making, but I just have it in me. So I have to constantly … and it was a decision… I will not let this be the master of my life. And I'm so grateful that I did that, made that decision.

Yeah, and then I work, you know, that's why one of the reasons I started meditating. I have spiritual reasons, but I also did a lot of things because I wanted to manage my anxiety in a way that I hoped would help. Yes, there are pills and I took some for a while, but they did other things that were difficult for me. So I let them go. And, but yeah, yeah, decisions, very powerful. They're very powerful. They turn something around in you. They're like you said, they light that fire. It's ignition to that fire. Says, no, I'm not doing that. I'm doing this. I'm committing to this. And all of a sudden your body changes! Your chemistry changes. It's powerful.

Corinne: Yeah, right. We can either live with anxiety and feel it, or live with anxiety, feel it and still do things. Because what you're saying, it takes effort and energy, but they both are… either living with it and it just stopping us. It's taking a lot of energy to actually stay bound, know, stay stopped. Yeah. I see the picture. I can't find the word for it right now, but what I'm saying is …. as much as we think it, there's a lot of energy and movement. I think there's a lot more energy in actually standing firm. So there's that. Yes, to this idea that it's harder to move forward with anxiety. I would ask anyone who believes that to just sit with the concept of, is it, but is it really, is it really harder to move forward or does it just seem as if it is?

Lisa: Yeah. I wonder what the difference is. I wonder how come some people just can - like you and me - say no, not doing that, not not living like that, not not choosing that road.

Corinne: I've sat with that.

Lisa: I, were, empowered. Right? It's an empowerment.

Corinne: Right. Yeah, I know. I know, I certainly don't have the answer because I have asked that question. You know what I've had to come to terms with though? - and the holistic psychologist, Nicole LaPera, has helped me in this - I would often give people an out, just in my own mind.. I don't know why. I don't know why it seems like I can do it and they can't. And there's just been things she said enough times that I've realized, I'm not doing that. I'm not giving anyone else an out.

I might sit here and say, I don't understand. It seems like it's harder for them than me, but I'm buying less into the idea that it is harder. I don't know. And this is not me shaming anyone. That's not at all what I'm doing. I've just had to stop saying it's easier for me. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I won't ever know because I only live inside of my body. I don't live inside of anyone else's. But I do think we're all capable of more than we realize.

And it's actually, I bet, for you and I - correct me if I'm wrong - it's not because we felt we were capable. It's nothing to do with that. It's just a matter of deciding. I'm not living like this. I don't want to. There has to be something that's a little bit better, maybe a little bit easier, and I'm willing to put in the effort. And it feels like trudging through mud, right? I mean, it does. Like you talked about, you still wake up with the anxiety. But the moments of respite, or when you reflect back on what you did midlife and you realize, wow, I'm so glad I traveled! I'm so glad I did these major career moves. I mean, that's worth something there. And that does bring a sense of euphoric pleasure to you to realize what you've accomplished.

Lisa: Absolutely. Well, you're saying…. what keeps coming up for me is the word victim. I refuse to be a victim.

Corinne: Yes, you're right. I just didn't think of the word! You're right. I've had to stop. I've had to stop looking at the world through through that lens. Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. The question is how come, you know, and of course when I'm working with somebody in a coaching situation, and certainly when I was doing therapy too… hey, when I talk to family members, you know, there's a point where I have to say, you want to be a victim here? Because that's what's happening. You're staying a victim. You know, there's some sort of benefit to being a victim. And here's where fear comes in, right? There's something scary about not being a victim. So you're playing the victim, you're caught in the victim, you may or may not know that's what you're doing. But let's say someone shows you, hey, you're playing the victim here. Then what's stopping you from, and I like to say the word being empowered, right? What's stopping you from empowering yourself? It’ll usually be some sort of fear.

Corinne: Wow, you just brought that full circle for us! I love that. So everybody, as we wrap up, consider what Lisa was just saying and sit with this idea. Anything that's not familiar is scary. So if it feels like the familiar has been that I have been the victim - and I know you have, I know you have been victimized. And I would never minimize that.

Also remember what Lisa said. Even though she makes contact with the little girl she once was and she takes care of that little girl, she also remembers, I am the grown woman. I am the grown woman today, capable of much. Very empowered. To you listening, you may have been the victim - and you were victimized, but also remember who you are today. You are not the one trapped in whatever that moment, whatever that scene, whatever that experience was. Where are you today and what can you do in this moment out of power? Because you are powerful!

You are capable! You are powerful and capable. I believe in you. Lisa knows how much you're capable of. You are sitting right now, figuratively, with two people who see your worth and believe in you. Feel the love in this space, because you deserve it. You are worthy of it. You have always been worthy.

And go make the smallest little pivot. It shouldn't be anything major probably. It doesn't need to be anything major. Initially, it can be the smallest pivot, and allow that to be the momentum to take you where you need to go!

So, much love my friends.

Thank you, Lisa, for being with us, and join us again soon on Empowered to Thrive!

Lisa: Thank you.

To connect further with Lisa find her on Instagram at http://instagram.com/lisagarbercoaching or email her, lisa@lisagarber.com⁠.

If you'd like to pick up a gift I've prepared for you, the Keys for Change workbook with video lesson, go to changeradically.com/keys-for-change-freebie